See no evil, hear no evil…too busy eating doughnuts!
Nov 23 2009
We’ve all encountered a lot of clueless police before when dealing with humane cases, but I have to say the Tulsa County Sheriff is setting the bar awfully high in the incompetence sweepstakes.http://www.newson6.com/Global/category.asp?C=121535&clipId=4321548&autostart=true
How many times do I have to tell people that “he’s skinny because he’s old” is utter nonsense? Maybe Tulsa County ought to hire me to go teach a seminar to their staff. I’m available for a price. It would beat looking this stupid in the national media!
Hey, kudos to Ms. Gaines for raising a ruckus. Keep it up! Not only may you save the horses, but you might actually manage to educate some people in the process.
76 comments to “See no evil, hear no evil…too busy eating doughnuts!”
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Winter started many weeks ago for these horses. The barkless trees tell a story. OH, there’s GRASS, LOOK, THEY’RE GRAZING, no neglect. In this day and age it is a travesty. Winter is HERE NOW. Wake up you lazy f–ks. A BIG BRAVA to the brave woman who exposed this.
I just had to put down my old Morab of 28 years old this morning I have owned her 24 of those years. This old girl was ridden lightly right up until the end the best babysitter. Lacy was in great shape even the vet wanted to give her 12 hours to see if she’d turn around. I spent every minute with her walking her keeping her company last night. These old horses are gems and they deserve much more than what is pictured in FHOTD blog. What’s wrong with people are they so self absorbed they can’t see past the noses of these starving horses. I’ll truly miss my old horse I feel sorry for those people who have never had a lifelong bond with a special horse.
“Clueless” doesn’t begin to describe this. I can remember about 8 years ago we had a rash of dog poisonings in our neighborhood. Neighbors on either side of a nasty man who was a Youth Authority employee came home to find their dogs in the last stages of some sort of poisoning. No one had the money — $1,000 or more — to pay the vet to find out exactly what sort of poison it was, but the scary thing was, each of the neighbors had small kids and it was their dogs that were poisoned.
Several sheriff deputies called to the case were less than concerned, giving out the “it’s just a dog” or “it’s just an animal” rationale, unable to extrapolate from the “just a dog” being poisoned to it being, possibly, a CHILD next.
No charges were ever filed because no one could prove anything and of course no one saw anything, but there was plenty of moral certainty as to who was responsible.
My point is that if the authorities are clueless and not interested in listening to an animal lover (already classified as “a nut job” in some of their minds) when it comes to what constitutes an excuse for having a skinny horse, there isn’t much that can be done unless there is a sympathetic judge somewhere who IS clued in (and an animal lover) who will hand out punishments and remove animals.
Of course, you have to have somewhere for these seized animals to be placed.
Just doesn’t seem to get any better, does it?
Rachel Gaines claims there are local people willing to take the horses – and there may indeed be. It isn’t always that there’s NOWHERE for them to go. Sometimes it’s that nobody wants to do the work involved, which I suspect is the case here. I mean, come on, how hard is it really to approve some local ranches to foster or to get a 501c3 rescue on board to take donations? It’s on the news…you’ll GET donations.
I have nasty neighbours, and I have dogs, and horses. If one of my neighbours harmed/killed any of my animals, ie I found them poisoned or whatever, I would kill them. I have told them this and, as they already consider me crazy as I have animals instead of thousands of badly behaved screaming kids, they tend to believe me.
None of them has a witness to my threat, I am crazy, not stupid, but it goes a long way to protecting your animals. Perhaps if someone had gone and kicked in all this mans windows and slashed the tyres on his car he might have begun to take them seriously?
I am not a violent person and I would never incite anyone to violence under normal circumstances, even then I would always go the route of “property before person” BUT when innocent animals are involved….well, let’s just say hell would have no fury.
You do not want to see me angry, you would not like me when I am angry!!!
They saw that horse, and DON’T THINK starvation killed the mare?? Are you kidding?
Like I said, what do they think killed her? Aliens?
That’s insane…
So many people are utterly clueless when it comes to the care of older horses. “Skinny because they are old” is such utter hogwash that that statement should be banned from the English language. They can have all the hay/pasture in the world but if their teeth are in horrible condition they can’t eat it. I have a 26 year old mare that is fine in the summer time for the most part but when she is on hay she just can’t chew it up. I find half chewed hay balls everywhere. It takes extra time and money to feed the elders which, I suspect, is the real reason so many are skinny racks of bones. I buy purina senior and alfalfa cubes for my mare. I feed her a scoop of alfalfa cubes soaked in warm water for 20 minutes and broken apart by hand and a scoop of senior feed. She does have free access to hay or pasture for 12 plus hours a day but of course she can’t eat but a small amount of the hay and would probably lose tons of weight without the extra supplemental feed. She gets her teeth done regularly as does her 23 year old pasturemate. He can still eat hay but it won’t be long, I’m sure, that he will be getting soaked hay cubes too. I keep a very close eye on both of them in the winter months and am ready to supplement or increase feed as necessary. Why can’t people see their horses dropping weight and think…”Gee, maybe I ought to find out why my horse is so skinny”?
Oh so true, I have a 30 year old stallion who would starve to death in a well grassed field as he has NO teeth.
He lives, very economically and with minimum attention, on beet pulp and alfalfa cubes soaked well. He does of course get grain etc, but not that much as he is fat and happy anyway!! Still breeding, still fertile, still fat. No fuss, no bother. It drives me NUTS when people say an animal is thin because it is old, there is no excuse!! Thin because it is ill, yes, of course, and if it is getting Vet attention, OK, but old?? NO WAY!!!
At least I was smarter than that… when Easy started dropping weight, I thought, “Time to get his teeth floated.” It was, but I had the vet over just in case. (Lucky me; she lives next door and doesn’t charge us for barn calls!)
Ruthie
“The deputy [said] he didn’t think malnutrition killed the mare …”
Seriously? WTF??????
“The deputy [said] he didn’t think malnutrition killed the mare …”
No sir, because it is SO TOTALLY NORMAL for horses to strip the bark off every tree within their reach. And to have big wormy bellys showing under their ribs and backbones.
I need to put some pictures of my old gelding who lived until his mid-30s on Photobucket to share with clueless asshats like this…Couldn’t see a rib on him, even on the day he died, and he had few teeth, heaves, and a heart murmur by that point (but still loved to run and play like a colt!) Only the sway in his back and the gray on his pretty black face showed his age.
Yes, please do! I was just thinking that having a portfolio of healthy older horses would be a good thing to have on hand to show the ACO/deputy/whoever would be good.
Ruthie
*bashes head into wall*
Horses need more than just grass to eat! Yes, they have access to water and grass, but they won’t come winter! And like Fugly said, just because a horse is old does not mean that they’re ribs will start showing. The stable I use to ride at had a couple of old horses; one was fat and the others were in good condition. If I found one of my horses dead in the pasture, I would start asking questions…like CALLING THE VET! If you can’t afford the vet fees, then why the hell do you own horses?! There’s also the possibility of these horses having worms, so it won’t matter if they have access to food.
Why are we seeing more neglect cases like this with the police overlooking it?!
Actually, horses can live very well on grass. However, there has to be enough grass for the horses to eat, and that pasture looked like it was mostly weeds and dormant grass eaten down mcuh too short.
WTF is right! Who does that!?! I like how the owner “knows we’re watching” but I doubt they ever showed up to check on their dead mare. The poor thing! There’s no nutrients in that grass. It’s winter! *head desk*
For anyone who needs pictures to help them, here is a very old horse without and then with PROPER FOOD THAT HE CAN EAT.
Any questions?
That grass, what little of it is left, has had no nutritional value since about August. Horses don’t eat where they’ve crapped. The grass there usually is filled with too much nitrogen from the manure. So even though you see grass…… it doesn’t mean it’s healthy to eat.
I can’t stand our “animal control officers” which are usually just some rookie dude that needed a job and didn’t get accepted onto the regular force.
Oh man that is such, such utter crap. I mean, LOOK at those horses and then think about whether they have any reserves for when big time winter weather comes. What do these ‘authorities’ think will happen then? Jeez, I wish I’d snapped a picture this morning when I pulled the blanket off my healthy, shiny, round, cute as a button 27 year old stallion, out enjoying the sun on his back, to show them what an old horse is supposed to look like.
As for old horse = skinny horse, how can anybody still believe that? It’s just a self serving manipulation of the true statement that it’s unhealthy for a senior horse (or any horse for that matter) to be overweight. Yes, your senior horse shouldn’t have rolls upon rolls, but that does not mean that your only other choice is a walking skeleton. It’s not even that hard to keep them looking good even when the teeth are going and people need to realize that you actually can save money by using hay cubes, watered, becasue of the lack of wastage.
It takes more time, but hell, haven’t these senior horses earned a little pampering by this point in their lives? The benefits of caring for an older horse are huge, they are generally patient and kind, and it’s a great opportunity to learn a lot about how horses function and relate from an elder statesmen, without the pressures of having to perform to a certain standard or in a particular style or discipline or time frame. It really can simplify things and remind you why you loved and wanted to have horses in the first place.
simply passing this along:
My name is Jody Kidd, I am currently living in Arizona, but have horses in Eatonville, WA that I have been trying to find homes for since August. I have friends who have been feeding and caring for the horses on our property there while all of us have been trying to find home, but the sale of our property closes at the end of this month and I have no where to go with them. The following description and pictures is what I have forwarded to everyone I know, and everyone they know. I read your posting about the Sales Auctions; if the slaughter houses are closed, where to the Kill Buyers go with the horses? I was considering trying to find someone to take them to Enumclaw Sales Pavillion, but I’m sure at least two would go to Kill Buyers if they’re still in business. I’ve contacted Pierce County Animal Control, but have not heard back from them as of yet. I don’t know anywhere else to turn. Can you help me, or give me some direction? My contact number is 253-905-3309 (cell), or 623-388-0626; or by return e-mail.
________________________________________
Here’s a brief description of the horses, I sure appreciate you sharing this with anyone you feel would give them good homes. If you have any questions, please call me at 623-388-0626 or 253-905-3309.
Jubliee is 24, mare, Arab cross and gaited. I’ve had her for 17 years. She is the “Bell Mare” of the herd. She suffered an injury to her front right before I got her and developed a bone spur on her right front coffin bone. Up until 6 years ago she and I would take off on the trails for all day rides, but as the bone spur grew she is now unable to carry an adult’s weight. She’s great with small children (up to 8-10 for size/weight) Needs to be worked on soft surfaces, and can not be shod (extreme pain due to the percussion of nailing shoes), does better on grass than alfalfa. Very gentle.
Lucky is the only gelding in the bunch, Arab, about 14 years. He sustained an injury to his right front knee about 7 years ago, which is when I adopted him. Does fine with flat work and easy trail riding, but not a horse for steep trails or rugged terrain. Gentle with children. I believe he has been worked English as well as Western. He’s smart, and very tactile. He’ll grab the hose from the water trough and spray the mares, or you if he’s able. Will pull combs, brushes, and carrots from your back pocket is he has the chance. Knee gets a little stiff and benefits from a good massage.
Princess is 15, Arab mare. She has basically been a pasture pet, although she’s had some ground work under saddle, she’s never been ridden. Would be a great project horse for someone to start. Good hard feet, never been shod. Princess needs to be with another horse and is very attached to Jubilee.
Chloe, is papered Arab mare, 16 years. She’s been worked bareback, and under western saddle with a side-pull but has never carried a bit. Very gentle, easy keeper. Would be a good project horse as well. Never been shod.
Cricket, is a papered Arab mare, 16 years. She and Chloe were bred on the same farm and have never really been seperated for any length of time. She has primarily been a pasture pet, very eager to learn. Very gentle, easy keeper. She’ll follow my anywhere, including up the steps onto the back deck if I let her.
I would be willing to gift these horses to 4H or Pony Club members. The mares have all been together for 14 years, Lucky joined the group 7 years ago. They’ve been wormed regularly, every 8-10 weeks and received their trims the last week of October. They have not had dentals for some time and are due for shots. Jubilee and Lucky load fine in straight trailers, but the other 3 have only been hauled in slants. It is important to me to keep Chloe and Cricket together. All, except Princess, are very social; she’s a bit more timid but will come around to you with a little time and attention.
Try listing them on COTH’s free horse bulletin board. I believe you can also list free horses on several other horse blogs. Make sure to rehome them with a reasonable but thorough contract/Bill of Sale, also ask for references and call those references. Be prepared to have to put down horses that are elderly or soundness issues that would make them too hard to place or too stressful. A quick humane death is far better than the slaughter house or leaving their remaining life to potential misery in the wrong hands.
You know, for the longest time I thought old horses were supposed to be thin. You want to know where I got that idea?
Anyone remember this book?
http://www.draw50.com/imgs/horsgifs/horse50.gif
I got it when I was 8, and near the back there’s a tutorial for “Old Horse”. It’s unhealthy, emaciated, and unkempt. As a kid, it’s one of the reasons I thought old skinny horses were normal. I love the book otherwise, but I guess “old and skinny” is a pretty common misconception.
Nobody denies that “the horses have access to grass and water and it’s harder to keep weight on older horses.” Duh. Thank you Tulsa County for that light bulb moment (and by the way, you forgot “bark”). Every responsible horse owner will tell you that as horses grow from babies to adults to seniors, there is a trend. They need lots of food, then less food, then lots of food again. And they need food they can actually digest. Bark doesn’t count.
Our older TB mare needs a breathtaking amount of food and probiotic (trust me, you don’t want to know), and for no reason other than the fact that she’s the nervous type and consequently a hard keeper. We have to dodge high energy feeds that just add to her temperament. But we don’t leave her skinny just because it costs $300/month to feed her (OK, I’m exaggerating, but that’s not the point).
Rachel Gaines, I tip my hat to you. Keep at it!
Talk about INFURIATING. We have the same problem in my area with the Animal Control authorities. Nobody knows anything about horses. My friends and I have reported several neglect cases and nothing is ever done. We reported an Arab gelding in a shabby, backyard-horse-owner-type neighborhood who was foundering so bad he couldn’t stand for more than ten minutes at a time. The owner, who knew full well what was going on with the horse, was very nonchalant about it and didn’t think it was a big deal. When we approached him, his response was, “Oh yeah, he does that all the time.” The officer went out and told us they couldn’t do anything because the horse was a good weight and had access to hay and water. The worst part was that all the neighbors (most of whom had horses of their own) had been watching the horse suffer for who knows how long and nobody saw anything wrong until we happened to drive by.
Props to Ms. Gaines and I hope she keeps up the good work. I can’t believe how stupid that deputy was. My 9yo brother could have looked at that mare and told you she starved to death. *headdesk*
These people are not stupid. Stupid cannot be used as an excuse in this case. Anyone in the world, horse educated or not, can tell these horses are dying. There are a lot of things that uneducated horse owners can blame ignorance on, but starvation is not one of them. Okay, so maybe this person didn’t realize that they needed to supplement their horse’s feed even though there is grass in the field. But, when the horses are losing weight, eating the trees, and DYING, that’s a pretty good sign that even though there is grass in the field, somethin’ ain’t right. I see this all the time. Shrubby weeds all over the field, not a single blade of grass, but some people don’t know the difference. They think, hey, it’s green, they should eat it. But, come on dumbass, use your eyes. The horse is skinny. There’s green stuff growing and he’s not eating it! Do something! This is a solid example of “turn your head in the other direction and lie to yourself that they are fine and there’s nothing else you can do, because in all honesty, there are a lot of things that can be done, but you’re to much of a lazyass to do it” syndrome. I have had friends who know NOTHING about horses make comments about “that place down the road where the horses all look skinny”. If you have eyes, well, take a look at your horse and see if they look okay! If you don’t have time to look at them regularly, then you’re a crappy horse owner and shouldn’t have them. And as far as the age thing, when exactly does that hit? What is the magic age that all of a sudden all of the horses go skinny and can never look healthy again? I recently saw a skinny horse, the guy said he was having trouble keeping weight on her because she is older, so of course I had to ask, and guess how old she is: 9! What?? I have seen enough big shiny fatties in their late twenties to know better. When I hear about these cases I figure what it all boils down to is the owner is both (a)selfish, and(b) lazy. Selfish, because they prioritize their own well being above their starving and neglected animals, and lazy, because they just don’t care enough to put in whatever effort it would take to fix the problem. This is not an owner who’s too stupid to know. The police officers are not too stupid to see it. They know exactly what they’re doing. They just don’t care enough to take action.
This is heartbreaking to hear. I am originally from Tulsa County, and literally right down the street from these poor horses. I don’t live in that area now, but does anyone know of a way to contact the Tulsa County Sheriff to continue the ruckus making? I know of a few people in the area that have happy, healthy horses, and some extra room. email me (with no spaces)–> gem twist 17 @ hotmail . com
Going through a similar thing right now. I’ve put in multiple calls to the local humaine socioty & animal control regarding a horse that looks just like the one pictured. They always tell me they are “aware of it and will be checking in on the animal soon” or that they were “just out there”. I’m just at a loss & don’t know what else to do other than hook up the trailer and take the poor horse myself… if only I had the space.
I liken the way many people feed their seniors to feeding a toothless old man nothing but beef ribs. They are GOOD beef ribs but he can’t eat them! If they are fed food appropriate to the condition of their choppers they can look like fugly’s example above.
I think that a lot depends on who the first responder is. A long time back, we had neighbors who took in foster children, about 12 at a time crammed into the house. They got 3 horses and it was totally the children’s responsibility to take care of them. Needless to say, this did not work well. I talked with them and other folks talked with them but nothing changed. Finally, the old skinny horse went down one Sunday & could not get back up. I called the Sheriff Dep’t since Animal Control was not open on Sundays. The Sheriff Deputy who came out assessed the situation and shot the horse, called someone at Animal Control & got the other two horses hauled off right away. It created not only the neighborhood ruckus but county departments ruckus as the Foster Children folks got mad at the Sheriff Dept for doing that. They said nothing was wrong at all & the horse was fine. Guess they were hard up for foster homes.
At the other end, also many years later but in a different county, a crazy old woman had lots of animals–horses, buffalo, sheep, chickens and dogs. All were in rough shape. We all beat our heads on the wall trying to talk to her. When the first buffalo died & the horses were looking real bad, I called Animal Control. When I talked to that officer later he said the buffalo died of “the flu” and all the animals were fine. Yep, a flu called lack of water & feed. It took years & many more deaths before someone finally was able to light a fire under AC & they hauled off all the animals, and took the woman for psych evaluation once they found out that the chickens lived in her kitchen (I kid you not). The house was red-tagged as all the windows were broken out & it had bare electrical wires & holes in the roof.
It seems that once the first responder makes his/her decree, the rest of the dept falls into that line.
The Old equals Thin mantra is one that we all must work on, educating where and how we can.
OMG!!! I feel sick!
How can anyone look at those horses and not see that they are in real trouble. That poor mare died because the people who are supposed to help and protect her failed her in a most disgusting way.
Thank goodness for Rachel Gaines, maybe now this has been on the news someone will step in and help these poor creatures. She says there are homes waiting for them, for goodness sake, someone sign the paperwork and get them out of there.
Any chance the ASPCA could get involved and charge both the owner AND the county staff with neglect and abuse?
Surely ANIMAL CONTROL OFFICERS letting animals starve to death is prosecutable?
As a bare minimum these people need URGENT re-training! Or just TRAINING since it sure doesn’t look like they have any!
Unbelievably sad
Yup. I know when my horses are so old they look like racks of bones, that I’ll go ahead and breed them so that I can have new horses after the old ones starve to death. Come on, there are mares and foals in that field.
*sigh*
I had to deal with this with my neighbor. They had a 20 something year old TB that was a 1.5 or so on the body scoring scale. I called and got told he was just old. I insisted that they make food for old horses, and he shouldn’t look like that. Reluctantly, animal control came out. There is some rule out there in my area that states if animal control comes out, you have to have a vet check the animal. I’m not sure how that works, but the vet came out, informed them that the horse shouldn’t look like that, and insisted they put him on a senior feed and beet pulp. Surprise, surprise, he looks almost like a normal horse six months later. Yes, it’s more expensive to feed the old guys, but if you insist on having them, then you need to feed them. Period.
As pp said, They can have all the hay/pasture in the world but if their teeth are in horrible condition they can’t eat it.
Too sad!
~DD
Hell Stevie Wonder could see that this mare died of starvation! I don’t care if you have never owned or even been around horses to be able to tell when one has been starved. Deputy—open mouth–insert foot!
And after “insert foot,” how about “Open eyes, insert BRAIN”???
any horsemen knows that after aug/sept there is no nutritional value in that grass. my horses are still out on “pasture” but they are hayed and grained twice a day. that law enforcement that responded after being called dont know jack sh*t about horses BUT they are western MEN so they know it all..dream on…
OH MY GOD!!! That is Beau all over again! If it hadn’t been for Beau’s foot, he’d still have his fat happy butt in my barn! Yeah, it’s all about “FOOD THEY CAN EAT” – like pellets!?! Yeah it’s more expensive, but isn’t the cost worth it? Of course it is! *heads out to hug the ponies*
If they are that darn skinny in that pasture, then OBVIOUSLY they aren’t getting what they need from the grass that’s there. Any moron can figure that one out! I’ve NEVER seen horses strip trees like that. But then again, I’ve never personally witnessed horses that are starving to death, either. just because they were getting along fine this summer (and I don’t know what they looked like over the summer- an older horse can drop weight pretty fast in the absence of nutrition) doesn’t mean it can sustain them now.
Poor horses, I hope something in done for them.
Why does it always take an animal dying for action to be taken??? I really think there needs to be an overhaul of current rules regarding AC getting involved in cruelty cases. It should not come to animals dying and others near death for them to get involved.
I’m glad that lady was persistant, hopefully the others will get rescued, but it breaks my heart that that one mare died first.
I’m a Tulsa County resident and this doesn’t suprise me in the least. After going around and around with the TCSO and the DA on another case I was told that “I didn’t have to vote for the DA anymore, it was an elected office.” They said they would not prosecute even though the law was specifically violated because “they had more important issues to deal with and it was their decision to bring the most prosecutable cases to court”. You got it right fugs when you said they are too busy eating donuts. It makes me sick to pay taxes for these people to have a job.
At an old barn, there was an emaciated TB gelding. He was only 12, owned by the BO. He was honest to god skin and bones. He was left on pasture, and they just said “well we tried everything!”. Well, no they didn’t. He was left on no pasture, on low quality round bales. No grains or extra feeds. There was really NO reason for not having him in a stall on the higher quality hay, on mush, anything.
The death of this gelding was simply covered up, and not talked about. He was euthed in secret, as he was hidden out back of the barn and when he went, no one noticed.
This story brings me to the simple fact that, horses WILL NOT eat every last strand of pooped on grass in their pasture. These BO’s went out and looked at the grass when it was suggested they start feeding supplement hay during the almost 24 hour turnout. They said, no way! There’s still tons of grass out there!
*HEAD DESK* and repeat.
And of course to top that story above off, these people were loaded. Lack of funds was not even close to an issue.
OH FOR FUCK’S SAKE! Like I needed another reason to hate Oklahoma. Goddamn it!
Unfortunately, this really is nothing new. In my state, we tend to be EPIC FAIL when it comes to animal welfare.
Jesus Christ Almighty. I can’t wait to move away from here. “Horsey state” my ass.
Get out as soon as you can!!!!! Texas is a great option:-)
That ’skinny because they are old’ attitude is something that we are fighting here in Canada too. I work with one of the local horse rescues, and this is the guy that I have in my backyard, because $100 was too much to spend on a quiet, well trained pony to get his teeth done.
[img]www.sadiesplace.ca/images/horses/Chance-3-Nov-21.09.jpg[/img]
He lovely, a perfect example of a Newfoundland pony, right down to the legs like iron, the narrow chest and the Lippit Morgan mane. In a year, we might even be able to adopt him out. This picture was taken 5 weeks after he arrived. I’ve never figured out why people think that animals will be able to fix this stuff themselves. On the bright side, when we have him rehabbed, someone is going to be able to adopt a very, very good children’s horse.
Lol, that didn’t work! How about a link to his blog posts?
Oh for Christ Sake!!…
Those horses aren’t that old. They’re simply neglected. I’ll toss out a guess: The one that came up to the camera isn’t over 12. Not a gray hair on it’s face. Another case of shit-stupid lazy owners.
In a day or so they’ll show up in their government sponsored cash-for-clunkers F450 and toss out some crap hay to avoid prosecution.
Just once, I’d love to see a judge require these POS owners to dispose of the carcass as a family event with the media near by.
gotta check this one quick, before its gone…..
Horses and ponies (Watervliet)
Date: 2009-11-22, 10:18PM EST
Reply to: sale-ztmar-1478216296@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
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Clearing out some of the stalls. We have many different hores and ponies for sale this year. Training and breed varries, we have anything from performance horse to quiet trail horses to kids ponies. $250-2000 depending on your needs. Trainning for horeses is also available Call 269-369-7610
http://swmi.craigslist.org/grd/1478216296.html
Location: Watervliet
it’s NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
OK, I have a 17 yo TB mare. Her ribs started to show (slightly, no “hip pockets” as of yet). her teeth have been done recently, so we ruled out dental issues. We put her on a higher quality feed, with more of it. we also added a joint supp and rice bran. 2 weeks later: Lady’s got her curves back!
TA DUH animal control officers!!!!!
I wonder . . . when stories like this break, would a letter campaign to the nearest local media outlet(s) be useful or counterproductive? Nothing inflammatory, just photo(s) of people’s own glossy old horse(s) with age and details of diet, pain management, etc., that keep the horse looking good. And perhaps a basic review of the body condition scale and the effects of staying near the bottom for a prolonged time.
I’m wondering about the teeth too… yes, I see that they were peeling the bark off the trees but I don’t know that they could effectively -chew- it? And I can’t imagine these people doing regular floating. I also wonder how much of the pasture was filled with inedible weeds, because my understanding of grass here in the midwest is that going into winter, it tends to have a lot of goodies in it as it tries to get ready for winter, but again, even if it was decent grass, if they couldn’t chew it… So in a way, I’m kind of at a loss… were they eating the bark because the pasture was all but inedible? The sheer amount of bark they were eating does seem to point to ‘just plain starving”, rather than a specific craving caused by a particular deficiency. Not to mention the dead mare, and the absolutely skeletal horses not dead yet. Also, how old is old? I’ve seen the old card used on relatively young horses. They only -really- get high maintenance when they’re much older, and as has been noted, it’s usually still possible to keep them in great shape, although if you’ve been used to just a good, but no frills pasture board/drylot with hay setup, the cost may be a shock. Anyway, I’m pretty floored that no one saw this as a clear cut seize and prosecute case.
This is a little off-topic, but I was wondering…what do you folks suggest to say to a person who is thinking about breeding a mare for a riding horse? Someone I respect has a nice mare (I think TWH) who unfortunately has a leg issue that makes her unsafe to ride…easily a $10k mare before this developed, so she’s considering breeding to have a baby out of her to raise/train. This person has a lot of horse experience so I’m not concerned about this part, but what I’m pondering is that this person also works in rescue and I don’t know why in this circumstance a person wouldn’t just go and adopt another TWH…not having to wait 3-4 years to be able to ride, and all the associated costs in raising a foal (not to mention the horse-y prenatal costs!) seems like a better idea to me, particularly since this person is very experienced around horses and I’m sure has plenty of ability to evaluate behavior issues and retrain if necessary.
In particular, I’m pretty sure this “future horse” isn’t going to be a show horse, just a nice riding horse. In this situation, my brain is kinda questioning the necessity of breeding when adopting could probably be fine. How do I approach the subject? Am I wrong in thinking there are a bunch of nicely ridable gaited horses out there in rescues already?
That doesn’t bother me. If the mare is as nice as you say, and she chooses an equally nice stallion, and she takes the time to do her research on pedigree, any genetic issues, etc. then there’s nothing wrong with breeding your own mare. Some people do want a foal out of a mare they love – I’d have loved to have had one out of my favorite mare, but she didn’t settle when I tried. I don’t think that no one should breed, I just think that people shouldn’t breed if they (a) lack knowledge (of anything – from how to handle foals to how to avoid genetic defects in their breed) or (b) lack resources (everything from cash to proper facilities) or (c) there is no market for what they plan to produce. There is a market for a show quality horse of any breed, so odds are what you’d get with a good stallion and a $10K mare would be marketable even if you personally did not choose to keep it. That said, my only question is if she realizes that there is significant risk involved in breeding any mare, and that the outcome may be a dead mare and/or dead foal? As long as she’s realistic about that, hey, go for it…it’s her choice.
I forgot to mention in my original post that the genetic defect issue *is* one concern…the problem that made this mare lame is some sort of common ailment for horses around this age bracket (the name escapes me at the moment). She’s not old, I believe she’s around 10-15ish, and it could be genetic. At this point though, the owner doesn’t *know* that it’s NOT genetic. THAT was what concerned me…not knowing, and breeding a horse that could potentially pass on bad genes instead of just going ahead and purchasing/adopting a horse of a similar (or the same) breed that’s already at the same age and *doesn’t* exhibit this possibly genetic fault. Just seems a little shaky to me, hence wondering what, if anything, to say.
I don’t have a problem with people breeding if they’re making good choices, bettering the breed, etc., but I’m a little uncertain that rolling the dice and hoping you don’t end up with TWO genetically-predisposed-to-lameness horses is a good idea.
OK, this is a picture of my 30 year old stallion. See how thin he is??
He won this veteran class, BTW beating a Welsh Cob stallion that looked glorious! There was a gelding next to the boys who actually tried to leave the ring because our two old chaps were being (uncharacteristically) naughty!!
I’m afraid we let them show off as we were just so proud of them, the Cob was 28.
[img}http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/rabbitsfizz/Rabbit%20and%20Golly/1402263_43.jpg{/img]
Maybe this will work????
FHOTD in: Yeah, just add the direct link like that and I’ll add the code. I haven’t figured out the glitch yet.
Some states don’t have a humane society or SPCA. They do have rescues and when enough knowledgeable volunteers get together and help educate the powers that be, then and only then do things change. If you live in Oklahoma where these horses are, get together with the gal that turned them in, go to the Sheriff’s department and demand that they accept help from experts or it will get ugly. I’m telling you, you may have to do it several times and become a real pain in the ass but if you are really concerned, you will know it is the right thing to do. You can point out that the Sheriff claimed to be watching the owner but they didn’t know there was a dead horse and they couldn’t contact the owner to advise her the horse was dead. You might be met with silence, but that is the perfect time to tell them what YOU can do. They might respond with “it’s not that easy” and sometimes it’s not. However, the really hard part is getting them started. Just posting on web sites won’t work.
I have volunteered for our SPCA for over 12 years now. It wasn’t easy getting in but I did point out that the SPCA is for ALL animals, not just dogs and cats. I also pointed out that if they didn’t know that much about horses, I was there to help. It has been a very successful relationship and the horses in our area are grateful, I’m sure. I have had to go out at 2 a.m. to pick up horses, go into some bad areas to get horses, and spent time in court making sure the idiots got what they deserved.
It has been well worth my time.
Lisa Salas,The Odd fArm
MY old man is 37 sometimes I think he needs to go on a diet! I love him so much! Love to add a pic how do I do that?
FHOTD in: Just enter the direct link to the picture, no code. I have to put the code in. It is only letting admins do it. Don’t know why.
[img]http://www.jdsperformancehorses.com/jake-the-old-man.php[/img]
“The deputy [said] he didn’t think malnutrition killed the mare …”
And which vet school did he get his DVM from?
Does that county use deputies as medical examiners to determine cause of death when a body is discovered??
And, of course, it may not have been malnutrition — it may have been an intestinal blockage due to eating BARK and DIRT. Which was a result of malnutrition. Idjit.
About a year ago the brand of feed I had been giving my OTTB was discontinued by the grainery. It had 16 percent protein and I spent most of last fall trying to replicate the percentage while keeping the horse fit. It did not work. There was something in the feed that kept the weight on the horse and the protein value was immaterial. When I took him to see the vet in the spring, I said I needed help. He gave me his “tried and true” routine for building muscle mass. The answer was protein, but it was also a combination of “other things.”
I now feed alfalfa pellets (Standardbred by Secate), rice bran, and soybean pellets. The rice bran is nice because I mix his supplements in with a bit of water so the powders are “combined” and he licks up every bit. I soak the pellets if I have time, but he doesn’t mind the crunch. Secate pellets dissolve quickly, however.
The vet also suggested I add a flake of alfalfa hay at night (so I wasn’t “riding the sugar”).
Within just 10 days I could see a difference. His winter coat began to shed out more quickly and his topline filled out nicely. I’ve added a bit of alfalfa-molasses to give him a treat, and he’s energetic and very happy to have all this food ;o) Expensive? A bit more, yes, but worth it. Time-consuming? Yes. More scoops of more things. But again, worth it. You do what’s necessary (a concept lost on a LOT of people, it seems).
Here is a picture of my two seniors…the dun is my 23 year old gelding and the gray is my 26 year old mare. Yes, they are more work and expense to keep them looking like this but it is sooo worth it.
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1482583597080191555pcXBrd
It takes a really bad case here in my county in Georgia to get officials interested in helping animals. You do have to make a lot of noise if you want to get their attention. If you can’t get them motivated by complaining then try going to the news. Nobody here wants bad press.
When ignorance is shown at local levels, climb the ladder.
Expressing doubt and concern here is grand … but the horses are still in the dry lot.
State Reps Lucky Lamons and Seneca Scott have responded to emails and seem to be looking for solutions.
Tulsa County has a Website. It has a Contact Us section. I’ve used it and encourage others to as well. Having lost butterball fat horses at 34, 39, and so-ancient-the-vet-was-perplexed, I know exactly how ignorant the statement is!
Anyone is Mississippi close to Lake Cormorant that could check this out?
http://hilltoprabbitry.com/horsestuff.aspx
I emailed 3 horse rescues in Mississippi 3 weeks ago, got a reply from one that they would forward the info to a closer rescue, and haven’t heard a thing since.
It is a rabbitry that has their horses listed on their website and some are pretty thin. They say that they show at the Lazy W Saddle Club, but from this saddle club picture, http://hilltoprabbitry.com/thisisus.aspx it is obvious they can’t even saddle a horse properly, let alone feed one, apparently.
Habitat for Horses is very active in Oklahoma. Their website is http://www.habitatforhorses.org. There is a place to report abuse.
Well Fuggs,
Are there no AAEP members local that are versed in BCS evaluation?? Are we too busy gearing up for the Convention?? There is no excuse for this bullshit to continue to occur with law enforcement/animal control entities across the country. Supervisors, educate yourselves and your staff. There are veterinary schools in many states, and each state has a state VMA and veterinary practice board/association (not to mention the many practitioners themselves). Pick up the phone, and seek out professionals that will help you! You are doing a JOB, perhaps you are a PUBLIC EMPLOYEE. This is part of your responsibility in that capacity.
The bloated carcass proves that this horse wasn’t skinny and didn’t die of starvation…..typical redneck Okalahoma thought process.
If you want to contact Tulsa County they have a nice website for reporting issues: http://www.tulsacounty.org/tulsacounty/contactus.aspx
okay…seriously?…the sheriff’s dept doesn’t think this mare died of starvation?…and god forbid they do an autopsy on it JUST for the fact that now they are in the public eye of this…c’mon…prove us wrong!…horses don’t peel tree’s like that…and whoppy shit, there’s grass!…so-the-f**k-what?!?!?!…IT’S WINTER…there’s no nutritional value in that grass anymore this time of year…and the horses OBVIOUSLY need more then normal care as far as food goes…they’re way past grass filling them up…GOOD JOB MS. GAINES…you hound their asses because you know it’s right!…I myself am still in the middle of a court case involving a woman who bought my mare several years ago (and along with 40-50 horses now) who are starving…I ended up pretending to be her BFF and bought my mare back to get her out of that situation…she stepped back into my barn on November 3rd…in SERIOUS need of some groceries, a farrier (she hadn’t seen one in seven years) and of course shes pregnant again…yay!…too late to abort…but, at least she’s getting feed and water now…funny what “luxuries” can make a horse live…the sheriff’s office in this case needs to pull their heads out of their asses and get on the ball…I live in Ontario, Canada and the woman I’m fighting against lives in Kentucky…the sheriff’s office has done EVERYTHING they can to help me and those horses…it’s the damn court houses that keep letting this woman get away with this…this has been going on since April!…you keep at it Ms. Gaines…you’re right!
The lady in the news report said it all!! There are people out there that will take care of these horses if the owner can’t, why allow animals to suffer like that.
We have been in a hard drought for some months now and our 24 year old horse has never looked better! He had his teeth checked just this month also and is fine for yet another 12 months. Being in drought we have no grass of any value, do our horses starve? No! They are fed twice a day on prime lucerne and have a large round bale of Rhodes grass to graze on in between.
And just recently we purchased a Arab or Arab x, said to be “15 years old and in ‘paddock condition’. “Paddock condition” to me is fat and out of condition, not skinny with the last three ribs showing, no covering over the spine and emancipated rump! Sure we could have just turned our back on this horse, but then what for this horse? Instead he came home with us, had wormed, his teeth floated (so sharp was the right hand side that his mouth was lacerated from the inside said our dentist), we did this out of our own pocket even though he was on trial, there is no excuse to allow animals to suffer like that. He is rugged against the insects etc and fed seperately from the others as he took 2.5 hours to clean up his meal each time, oh and he is 18 yo not 15 yo and in just two weeks the difference in body weight is evident.
The seller saw to it that the horse was moved on, but felt justified in allowing the horse to get to this condition as the teenage owner had lost interst. This condition would not have taken a week or two to get to this point!! It is there responsibility as responsible adults to pick up the slack of their kids
There is no excuse for a horse slipping into poor condition. If you can not afford to care for your horse give them to someone that can that will give them the care and love they deserve
This is our 24 year old horse
Please, please, please remember how important water is in any horse’s diet!
A lot of these neglect cases do not have access to water, clean unfrozen water and much of that emaciation we see in these cases is dehydration as well as starvation. No, I’m not downplaying the fact that they’re starving too but water/fluid balance in the horse is actually more important to their healthy functioning before solid food. Not saying that they’ll drink readily either in this state because in the condition they’re in, their electrolyte balance is so messed up, they may not feel like drinking! It’s just a vicious circle!
Well, on my local news tonight the USHS just seized 80 horses along with dogs, chickens, and other animals at a Cannon county TN farm today about 65 miles from me! It showed on the news that about 30 of them were locked in a barn and starving to death, it showed several babies with their dams also….By the time authorities got there, 15 horses were already dead! I am so sick of hearing about this happening over and over, I could puke! Here is the link with the story and pics:
http://www.wsmv.com/news/21711661/detail.html
I hope the SOB’s rot in jail for this!
btw, I sent a nice little note to the Tulsa Sherff’s office…I hope others did as well…
All I can say is PEOPLE SUCK!!! It was hard looking at the first batch of horses, but those posted that were just seized in TN are AWFUL! That poor little foal….Makes you wonder if it will ever be OK. Looks like the father and son arrested for it, haven’t gone without eating!!! Communities really need to get horse smart, and at least start listening to people making complaints before any more cases get to this point…In a perfect world we’d get our wish, but that won’t happen anytime soon. I applaud anyone that steps up to the plate for the horses. I did a few years ago, when we had 2 loose horses wander onto our farm. They were immediately put in a paddock, and animal control was called. One of the horses had an old, filthy wrap on it’s leg covering an injury. It had been on so long, it was cutting into the leg! A “friend” ( former, long distance neighbor) came to pick the horses up, as they belonged to a neighbor of his. When I commented on the condition of the 1 horse, his comment was, “oh, yeah, the leg’s been like that for months” WTF??? He also said the horses continually got out, woke him up as they were crossing his bridge, and he’d catch them, and put them back in the neighbors yard!!!! Needless to say, the horses did not leave with him that day, and were removed to a safe place by animal control. And my “friend”, was no longer talking to me…Didn’t break my heart!!!
When I was a teenager we moved to Alaska, after moving we purchased an old large pony (14.2 hands) for $250. Nobody knew how old Casper was at the time, but after some research it was found he was around 39 years old. He had been around, he was a hunting horse, then a lesson pony, then a 4H pony, after many years he ended up as a trail horse. I purchased him after that. I had him for 3 years, he held his weight in the winter, even at temps colder then 50 below zero at times with just a run in shed, no heated barn or blanket. The only reason he died at age 42 was cancer, we had him put down while he still had some dignity. He was fat and sassy the day he died. There is NO reason for an old horse to be skinny with proper care, NONE.
Someone once told me “horses can live off of grass….what do you think the wild horses eat”. For awhile that statement made a lot of sense to me. Until one day I started to notice the horses that actually were being fed grain, supplements, hay, grass, etc. were looking A LOT healthier than the ones who only ate grass all day long. I wish I would have started reading Fugly over a year ago (most of you will understand where I lived and who decided to give me that gem of information if you have read any of fuglies other blogs), maybe I wouldn’t have believed the crap that came out of people’s mouths. Because of Fugly I have realized that I need to learn a lot more about horses before I ever need to own one. Thanks Fugly – and everyone who comments on her blogs!